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- Sometimes, the image upload/database hiccups. It happens. I expect no carelessness when a user incidentally makes dubble uploads. So don't worry.
- And though you've figured it out already, I'll confirm that only admins or higher can delete images, regardsless of whom. When you upload an image, you essentially donate it to the wiki and donations aren't usually returned. Parrotbeak (talk) 06:16, August 3, 2013 (UTC)
Jack Be Nimble
Taking this to you since you made the page. I'm inclined to assume that his name is a little more pun than literal, and that his name is Jack B. Nimble rather than Jack Be Nimble. This is, of course, only a guess and I'd like to have your opinion on it if you think it's worthy adjusting. Parrotbeak (talk) 09:30, September 25, 2013 (UTC)
There's this one user who's doing an amazing job keeping this wiki up to date(, allowing me to do some much needed updating on the MHWiki) and I am curious if this fantastic contributor would be interested to become an admin? Parrotbeak (talk) 16:52, October 10, 2013 (UTC)
- What it entails is what you make of it. Being an admin allows you access to some extra tools, such as the Rollback button, Deletion button, page protection options, and the ability to ban bad users, and allows you to edit pages even if they are locked on the highest setting. As part of the management, you are also invited to veto anything another management member does and you don't agree with (that is, you can veto me, but Wikia Staff is a level both of us have to obey). You can use these options as you think correct or as you feel okay about (I know that banning people for the first couple of times can be intimidating. And there are certain kinds of users that'll always keep you guessing if they are innocent or the complete opposite). Does that sound like a position you'd agree to have? Parrotbeak (talk) 20:49, October 10, 2013 (UTC)
- P.S. and just to be clear, accepting doesn't mean you suddenly have an obligation to be around 24/7 or something or must reply to any message you get immediately. Your current schedule is fine; would even be if you could be a lot less online, and we all have other activities throughout the day or even week. Parrotbeak (talk) 21:15, October 10, 2013 (UTC)
- I've gone ahead and given you the rights. I'll update the management page tomorrow.
- Don't worry about any expectations, because the only one I have is that this is new terrain for you and that you'll need time to get in touch with it. For me, adminship was something I arranged for myself because there were all these things I had begun seeing that needed or could use changing, but I didn't have the power to make those changes. For you, the experience will be in reverse. Even if you'll never grow into the areas of layout arrangement or template programming, that's okay. I can handle stuff like that if there's people around who take care of the rest. Parrotbeak (talk) 21:32, October 10, 2013 (UTC)
- You can indeed get rid of the Studios subcategory. It's an inheritance from the MHWiki that isn't (yet?) of use to the EAHWiki.
- With the quiz, good catch it isn't categorized yet. I don't think I can decide on a category name either because Wikia said they would like organization control of Mattel's contributions so that they can keep track of it all on pan-wikia level. I'll email them to ask for their category preference. Parrotbeak (talk) 18:59, October 17, 2013 (UTC)
- Much thanks for all teh updates, though for cases like Coach Gingerbreadman, unless trademarked as such, titles are omitted from articles due to their fluid nature. Might I ask, btw, do you have the book, or do you take your information from the likes of Tumblr? Because if you own the book, I would appreciate the addition of chapter title-based headers to the TSoL article.
- Also, for what it's worth, communication with Wikia always takes a bit, but we are talking about how to categorize the quiz. I hope it can be solved by Thursday. Parrotbeak (talk) 17:41, October 22, 2013 (UTC)
- It's always been a bit of a problem for me what counts as an appearance and what doesn't. I've sorta settled on "within the story, the character needs to be present (whether visually, vocally, or any other way). Not part of a reference, not part of a dream, not part of a memory, etc. Of course, there's always blurry areas, like that a flashback appearance does count as presence. The line between memory and flashback is not definite though, so there's always some leeway. if you have any suggestion for a better system, feel free to voice it. And as for your immediate question, timelines may be written as specific to the character as is needed, so for Cedar her timeline may both mention her first mention and her first appearance.
- Navigation links count as links, yes, but I am not sure how a quiz link would fit in. With the front page, I'm more or less as much at a loss as you, although I can assure you that things are being worked on. For the time being, I can add the quiz to the news template though. That ought to solve the matter for now. Parrotbeak (talk) 08:05, October 23, 2013 (UTC)
As you can see, I added a category to the quiz page, but it brought up a minor question I'd like to ask. The quiz page has no button for editing, so I wondered if you would have been able to add it. Basically, do you think some lightly advanced editing tips would be of use to you or am I insulting you by wondering if you are at that level yet? Parrotbeak (talk) 16:58, October 23, 2013 (UTC)
- I fear I have to disappoint you then. Uniformity of the timelines is a goal, but not a possibility. Exception arrangements within the MH timelines, for instance, include leak information (added not until the leak stopped being relevant!), complex trademark histories, and preliminary name reveals. As far as EAH is concerned, Helga/Hilda Crumb is a preliminary name-case and her timeline will thus contain a line most others won't. Undoubtedly other such exception cases will flow in over time that need special lines within the timeline to properly convey the character's franchise-history.
- Yes, all the fiction is principally equally canon (trademarks trump all, though). As far as any piece of canon doesn't contradict the "average" of the other canon, it can be written in without qualifiers. But if, for instance, the diaries and books would say character X is lazy, while the cartoon would say they are just as active as everyone else, the cartoon is considered incorrect. Information on non-lazy X would either be omitted or only added with a qualifier.
- Also, if you are going to add information about the book, the books also qualify for character-specific write-ups the way events in the cartoon are written down. Don't know if you want to work on that, but just in case, here's some guidelines.
- Since books are a more intense experience than a 2-min webisode, those write-ups can be as long as turns out to be necessary and may contain multiple paragraphs.
- Apple's and Raven's stories qualify as separate from the book.
- Fiction units in which a character is mentioned but not part of the actual story (Cedar in RQ's Story) are to be written in italics.
- For the time being, I don't think it necessary to make separate pages for the book write-up yet. Doesn't seem like there'll be sufficient material in most cases. Just throw it under a Books header on a character's main page and we'll see about separate pages when the second book hits stores.
- Feel free to make pages for any and all characters and pets that made their fictional debut in the books. Though keep in mind that Helga Crumb's article is to be named Hilda Crumb, since that's the trademark and trademarks are more reliable than anything else. The book write-up may refer to her as Helga since that's the name she goes by in the books.
- Ah, silly me. I turned off Visual a long time ago, so I don't get the Add Category button anymore. I had forgotten it existed. So, yeah, that wasn't the method I was talking about. What I did and what may be useful for you to know is edit the URL. Add "?action=edit" to a page URL and you can edit it even when there's no edit button to click. "?action=refresh" refreshes a page (so does F5, but that you can't code in if you ever wanted to make it part of a page). And "?action=delete" allows you to delete something when no button is provided either. There's a few more like that - I think the rename function is the only one that doesn't use this kind of URL coding, so yeah, URL manipulation often allows you to get past non-button restrictions.
- Also, if ever you want to return a page to a previous version but can't get that version with Undo or Rollback, go into the page history, click on the date of the version you want back, click the edit button you see there and then click the publish button. This returns the previous version as if you just edited the article to look that way. Since you're active on a number of other wikis, it might be worth noting that this method does not require adminship. Anyone can bring back old versions of pages this way.
- The Wiki Activity page is ridiculously sensitive to multi-deletion. Like, if you delete five image at a manual pace, Wiki Activity may already lose (older) data. And if you delete a page with comments, the page and each comment counts as a separate deletion and Wiki Activity may not take kindly to that. For the most part, this is not a problem, but if you ever want to do multi-deletion and suspect it might take a large bite out of Wiki Activity, it might be handy to pick a slow traffic-time so that any vandalism can't go through unnoticed. (For that matter, I got myself Batch Delete recently. It requires the user to still make lists manually, though this can be easily done using Special:AllPages or a User Contribution list as starting point, but can delete a lot in a short time. If you want the same program, I can set it up for you.)
- Normally, a navigation bar doesn't allow more Level 1 tabs (the ones immediately visible) than On the Wiki + four more. This wiki's got + five more. The final tab doesn't show up on the navigation management page, but is programmed in through MediaWiki:Wikia.js. I don't think this will be relevant to you any time soon, but now you know where the final tab is located and you can deduce from the code how to adjust it if you ever think that is needed.
- Though categories can be edited in easily (through the buttons you still have), sometimes those aren't good enough. Like, if you edit in a category (lets say "Pineapple") like that, it comes out as Category:Pineapple. This places the article alphabetically in the Pineapple category. However, sometimes it's useful to get it elsewhere in the category and for that you need to edit within the article. Category:Pineapple| places the page at the very start of the category, while Category:Pineapple|A would place the category in the A-portion of the category. This is largely only relevant to the way the doll assortments are organized around here, but useful to know.
- That's about all the tips/updates I can think of to tell you right now. It might be useful if you learn to work with Template:Subpage and Template:Subpageset one of these days and if you need any help with that, don't hesitate to ask. Parrotbeak (talk) 14:05, October 24, 2013 (UTC)
- Look, Monster High's got seven books out by now and another coming up. The MHWiki barely has any information on those books. I wrote the summary for the first book some months back and that alone was a huge job. I probably can get the first four books covered now that I have the materials, but I know it will be a long while before I'll be able to finish the project. And then there's three more books plus one coming up not even looked at. Reason I tell you this? You have no idea how much just the suggestion someone else will at least do so much as tackle part of the EAH book series means to me. Don't feel pressured to anything - I know these write-ups are tough. Do whatever you want to do in whatever order you prefer. The only priorities are what you think makes the overall work easier and/or more pleasant if you do it first (also, there's no deadline whatsoever, so go at this as you please). Parrotbeak (talk) 13:40, October 25, 2013 (UTC)
Parrotbeak said you could need some help for the book, I have read up to chapter 19 so I can help?
The Storybook of lengends
The new characters are:
Sparrow Hood and his merry men
Princess Darling Charming
The daughter of the fairy godmother (she didn't have a name.)
Helga and Gus Crumbs, they are cousins and german, I think
That's all I can find.
So, Darling Charming was mentioned in the books? Was anything in particular said about her? This is a character I've been particularly anxious for, so if you hopefully don't mind to answer...? (Pretty please.) Parrotbeak (talk) 09:55, October 26, 2013 (UTC)
- Well, then that neither lifts nor squashes my hopes for her then. Actually, lifts it in that I now have confirmation on her identity. Thank you very kindly for the information! Parrotbeak (talk) 17:54, October 26, 2013 (UTC)
- You have a point about the direction the conversation is going. There is a chunck of context you aren't aware of here, but I can also make the choice to see if that can be talked out. Will try.
- Something else I wanted to say: I notice that in regards to the pets and some characters, you don't link to pages that aren't yet written. You do things as you want to do them, but I want you to make sure you know it's okay to have red links on a wiki as long as there's a reasonable belief those links will be filled one day. And there is for the likes of Gala, Sandella, etc. I tend to find it easier to set up links beforehand so I don't have to worry about them later, but your call. I just want you to know red links are okay and that you don't oblige yourself to de-red them if they are obviously needed. Parrotbeak (talk) 21:15, October 26, 2013 (UTC)
Hey! I find this a little bit concerning, but in this photo, a girl on the rebel side (dressed in red, has a spiky crown, has something like a piece of paper in her hand, behind Kitty Chesire). She looks a lot like Lizzie Hearts! Since the Royals and Rebels are sat on two different sides of Legacy Day, wouldn't that mean that that girl is a rebel? Do you know who she is? I'd really appreciate if you help me sort this out.
I just noticed that, thanks for pointing that out! Anyways, I bet Lizzie would've been wearing gold. but there actually is a girl who might be dressed as that. This is much more clear now, this girl has a spider on her head and is a rebel.
I actually think those 2 on your picture slideshow is Holly 'O Hair and Poppy. The first one could be Holly, while the other one is Poppy. In the descriptions of them, Poppy has short purple hair. She does in the pictures, while Holly has long Auburn hair. Also seen in the picture. While the third one, could be friends with Poppy. They're always seen chatting with each other in the school corridor.
I also found a photo of this girl in EAH. I saw her in Legacy Day pictures. She looks very familiar, but I just can't remember who this royal/ rebel is..
I'm thinking of splitting the Characters page into several subpages, but as you know I have not a great grasp on all the characters walking around in EAH right now.
- My plan is to split it as Characters is split on the MHWiki, with slight differences in subsections to accomodate the different cast setup. In this, I'm going to make the assumption that, potential MH crossovers aside, the world of EAH will never feature another high school within its story. Do you think that's a reasonable assumption, given the current centralized position of EAH?
- From that, I want to split Characters in Characters Characters/students, Characters/adults, and Characters/pets. There may be material for Characters/other - for things like the trolls, the geese, etc. - but for now I think such a section can be done without as things are still largely being set up and those characters aren't any priority right now and might never be relevant.
- Characters/students would be split into Rebels, Royals, and Neutrals - the third category being for anyone yet undetermined, side-irrelevant, or a student before the Royal vs Rebel time (don't know if any such characters are defined enough to deserve a page. Your thoughts?) The only ones I don't know where to place would be Bella and Bruta, since they did make a stance, but never defined themselves by it. I'm inclined to put them into Neutral, with any text of them explaining their deal. But again, I don't know them enough to choose. What do you think? Parrotbeak (talk) 17:06, October 31, 2013 (UTC)
- Then with your approval, I'll go dividing it all.
- My intent for Neutral depends lightly on a pragmatic reading of what a Rebel and a Royal are, which is principally what this wiki is already doing. That means that any character prior to "the whole Rebel and Royal drama" can't be either and that it requires explicit confirmation for anyone to be deemed either a Royal or a Rebel. Therefore, the Sisters, Tiny, Son of the Hero of Haarlem, Bo Peep, Darling Charming, etc. would be "neutral" (for the time being) within this system. Parrotbeak (talk) 20:35, October 31, 2013 (UTC)
Badges and pages
- Technically, someone else has called dibs on the badges, but that was a while back and they continue to have e-connection problems. So, first come, first serve as far as I'm concerned. If you want to tackle the badges, go ahead. You can place the new images in Category:Badge images, which itself is to be categorized as Category:Images.
- I don't object to short articles as long as:
- They are of use (link-worthy, if you will)
- They are of a defined subject
- They can expect more attention within the franchise
- The pet pages all qualify for that. Holding off on articles of interest tends to be only interesting when there's important information missing. Like, I'm holding off on writing the EAH music video article because I'm not sure what the title of the song is (and thus what to title the article), and I'm waiting for an answer from Mattel along with some other stuff. Mind, this is an average approach. Exceptions can always be made to accomodate a special circumstance. What this comes down to for the pets, at least, is that there's a go on articles for all of them. Parrotbeak (talk) 07:44, November 2, 2013 (UTC)
- No, no, it's cool. I spoke with hinm (yes, it's SCK) and he agrees that it's best if just someone does it and he still can't. So, it's all yours if you want it.
- I'm fine with that treatment of small characters. Mind, this is a little new terrain to me because the EAH parents are way more significant already than the MH parents ever were. But I can see the Characters pages featuring unlinked sections for minor characters to be working.
- Also, I'm trying to update the Royals and Rebels pages. Would you be able to give a summary of the significance of Bella and Brutta in the books? What they did/happened to them (I'm aware of the corpse Apple and Raven found.). Parrotbeak (talk) 19:52, November 2, 2013 (UTC)
- Don't worry about spoiling me. It'll be a long while before I get the book and TTofTS keeps not being released. I'd like more information if possible. I would let you add about them on the Royals and Rebels pages, but I think you'd have difficulty fitting in the new info in the flow that I'm creating. I think it's easier if I try to get them in it immediately. Parrotbeak (talk) 20:35, November 2, 2013 (UTC)
Hiya! Thanks for the note, and for the sentiments!
Hm, personally I don't find DoA5's gameplay much different from the 4th in terms of gameplay, just improved and a few new tweaks added in, but the gist is the same. It still has the same issues, if not worse, in terms of fanservice and sexism though...
Cupcake says: Stay Fabulous! 21:31, November 2, 2013 (UTC)
- Ah, I'm not all that good at either 4 or 5 (never played any of the others) so I've never even attempted Ultimate lol
- Cupcake says: Stay Fabulous! 22:38, November 2, 2013 (UTC)
- Oh, my bad! I don't think Ultimate has much of anything new to offer gameplay-wise (but I could be wrong) but if you're like me and enjoy a larger cast and costuime selection then I'd suggest it haha
- Cupcake says: Stay Fabulous! 20:51, November 3, 2013 (UTC)
- You'd have to give me an example of what you are referring to to be certain, but experiences with MH would suggest that Facebook fan material is not the kind this wiki is to report on. What is allowed to pass the no-fanon rule is the kind of material that is acknowledged within a special structure or event and somewhat needed to explain that special structure or event.
- For instance, the MHWiki covers fan profiles for the first three Create-A-Monster add-on sets because they were part of a contest. The MHWiki also still has to cover three European contests that had the winners' own OC made into a one-of-a-kind doll. And the MHWiki covers the second "We Are Monster High" music video, which is specifically presented as the fan version but just as much the outcome of an official contest.
- I could say that "contest" is the way to interpret "special structure or event", but that might not account for unforseeable future events. In any case, the Facebook posts aren't interesting (I think). Most of it, I assume, is art appreciation (which would likely bring us into the area of image ownership) and some comments on it that appear in-canon but aren't. I'm reminded of a MH Tumblr post that appreciated someone's art by acknowledging the OC in it as "true", despite there logically being no place for him in MH and that surely being the only time he'd ever exist. It didn't take a lot of discussion to decide against acknowledging him as canon.
- I'm aware I'm mightily vague in this reply and you have my deepest apologies for it. I hope that nonetheless you can get the answer out of it that I couldn't quite formulate. Parrotbeak (talk) 18:31, November 4, 2013 (UTC)
- Fanart is business we pretty much want to stay away from. It is flattering to most artists for Mattel to feature their art, but it is theft for the wiki to "take" that art. I'm actually very uncomfortable about having slide 21 of the Ever After High Launch Presentation uploaded, but I think the context is just so that the argument in favor weighs out.
- I didn't want to bother you with the Beo matter, but it's certainly no secret, so I can spill on request. I suppose it might also help you get insight in some of my... eccentricities in user management. I'm providing details and names so you can track what evidence is preserved if you so wish to.
- "Beo" is an abbrevation of the original account of a user that has been a plague of the MHWiki for too long (and, yes, they've come to the EAHWiki too). About a year ago, a new user, Beoriginalhuge, registered on the MHWiki and entered the chat. The exact details are fuzzy to me here because I generally ignore the Chat, but from what I understood, a few longtime users made a few 13+ shipping jokes (chat is principally forbidden for those under 13) and Beo started interrogating what they meant. As in, in a matter that suggested they very well knew what was meant and were looking to embarrass the users and for material to get them into trouble (unrealistic, but it's the power of threat at play here). I know that in that time area the MHWiki chat crowd wasn't the most pleasant, so I don't mean to present this part of the story in a victim vs perpetrator frame. After that chat, they came to me to ask to do something about the other users. I told them that it was difficult for me to do much without direct context and told them that they could make screenshots a next time if they thought this wasn't incidental. Somehow they interpreted this as me promoting them to cop duty. I got my screenshots, which painted one image, but I received worrying questions and evidence from long-term users. Apparently Beo had been claiming I made them cop and would use the material they gathered to ban everyone. That part Beo never informed me of. At this point I made all parties clear I was retracting from the matter entirely because I didn't know what to believe and who to trust. I'm not sure what happened then, but Beo's account ended up disabled globally.
- Shortly thereafter, another new user registered, StormyRainNBoots. This account was clearly Beo, as they brought on they same type of chaos. Worse this time, because the framing attempts and harrassment were much bolder. To me, they tried to discredit SCK (who's a Chat regular and had dealt with Beo), suggesting he was using his powers in ways he had no permission for. I won't say SCK, or I for that matter, have always been stellar admins, but the kind of discrediting used was the kind meant to manipulate relations with suggestions rather than get a case out of fact. Stormy was eventually sufficiently conclusively proven to be Beo and we were tired of their harrassment and they were banned and shortly after the account was globally disabled.
- Some time passed and a new user by the account AliensInTheEnd registered. For the most part, they were okay. Or at least, not more of a hassle than the usual user. Apparently, several others at the MHWiki suspected them to be Beo (again, I never had that much contact with Beo because I don't really Chat. Others did have), but since they were behaving this time, the matter wasn't pursued and AitE was allowed to stick around. Things started to fall apart a month or so ago. AitE created two wikis of their own, the 13 Wishes Wiki and the Scaris Wiki, both wikis dedicated to TV specials from MH. Both wikis aimed for the MHWiki crowd. One core rule on both wikis was that no one was allowed to edit unless they first were promoted to admin or chat mod. With barely any content and no vision whatsoever, this made it very clear that both wikis were meant as means of control (that would not be given to AitE at the MHWiki). In that regard, around this time AitE made a blog post that they found out who the true founder of the MHWiki was. Aside from that I make no secret of this and that it's on the management page, this is... an odd "discovery" to be proud of. The only time anyone ever brings up my amazing predecessor (Lehall) these days or the technical founder of the MHWiki (FrankieStien), it's to suggest I have no right to my current rank because I'm not them. I recently found out AitE specifically asked about the founder over at Community Central, and that only confirms my suspision of their intent. Anyway, control. What happened was that at the 13 Wishes Wiki, Clawdeen Ghoul and Limearose1 were given admin rights. CG in particular was AitE's co-captain. Then L1 made someone a chat mod without asking AitE first, they flipped, framed L1 (in the most incompetent manner possible) and banned her. Then CG, siding with L1, banned AitE. The 13 Wishes Wiki and Scaris Wiki were promptly abandoned by everyone involved, the three took their fight to the MHWiki, I told them to stop, AitE was socially banned shortly afterwards (at this point I heard about the Beo suspicion for the first time), CG went to make their own wiki (in time more or less revealing a need for control too, which is sort of why I flipped some days ago), and L1's been mostly keeping quiet since.
- I should say that between Beo and Stormy vs AitE, the behaviors strike me as highly different. Beo and Stormy were slimy manipulative, but also uncontrolled. AitE is controlled. I can't personally guarantee they are the same. According to SCK, AitE did threaten the MHWiki recently to "be Beo again", so I suppose that's evidence enough. It's a tad trivial, as no connection is needed to not want either around, but that's why "Being BEO!" is a ban explanation.
- It doesn't stop there though. Shortly after AitE's inglorious demise, a new user registered by the name of EcopunkSteambot. This is very obviously AitE and thus they were promptly banned for sockpuppertry. EcopunkSteambot went on to found the Ghoulfriends Wiki, about the second MH book series. Same MO all over again. But I want specific attention to one detail here; I don't know when it became a thing, but AitE likes to make people uncomfortable by asking them intimate questions. You might want to visit the Ghoulfriends Wiki and read up on Kittens+Mittens history, who claims (to EpSb, unaware she is AitE) that AitE is harrassing her. Also check how both EpSb and AitE responded to this.
- Oh, I suppose I should say this too. At least starting AitE, we're not talking about one person, but two sisters (and maybe a cousin once in a while). On Tumblr, they are Inaferna and MerizheTabray.
- Recent account Creepycamp22098 most certainly is AitE. Same MO, odd behavior, targets who AitE would target, etc. User Clawd belongs to Me was also suspected, but no conclusive evidence was found. But both accounts have been disabled globally in the same time frame, and Clawd belongs to Me has said some suspicious things in the past (claiming to be an experienced wikia user despite their account showing no such history. This only makes sense if they are either lying or an old account with the editing experience was banned), so that makes it at least likely.
- If you are wondering right now how they can keep coming back to make new accounts, I have no clue. It'd mean their IP keeps changing, which I'm certain they aren't knowledgeable enough to do on their own. Might be the way their provider works. Apparently, Wikia has inquired about some rhythm in the IPs of banned users on the MHWiki, but without stable IP they can't do much to help us either.
- And that's about the whole story. Might be forgetting some accounts and details involved, but this is a decently complete picture. I hope you'll be spared ever having to deal personally with Beo. Parrotbeak (talk) 11:19, November 5, 2013 (UTC)
Madeline, Blondie, Cerise, & Cupid.
First purchase of the current line-up has been Ash because I managed to get the two-pack for $21. So I figured might as well knock out 2 birds with 1 stone.
Apple and Raven are least favorite because of their sickly white skin. Apple's personality strays me away from her. Raven is typical goth girl and I don't like that persona.
Briar's not bad, she's a bit "valley girl" but at least she's not Apple. Interesting to see how dark she is, never pictured Sleeping Beauty that dark.
Madeline's best because of how she tries to be different. Blondie because of her bangs and her dress reminds me of the designs you see on a carousel. Cerise because of her unique face. Cupid because she's Cupid. BeaNOwl (talk) 01:57, November 8, 2013 (UTC)
Dear Kellicopter, is it okay if I re-upload an image on this wikia? I didn't properly name one yet, therefor Parrotbeak told me to rename this. I would rename this picture, but do you mind taking it down first? I wouldn't want to duplicate a picture. Sorry for the trouble! Mojojojo13579 (talk) 03:51, November 9, 2013 (UTC)Mojojojo13579
Thanks! :) Should I add it first or wait for you to take it down?
Mojojojo13579 01:00, November 10, 2013 (UTC)Mojojojo13579
Throwing this here because I don't want to put it somewhere technically-publically.
The Featured Character section technically is not an FC section. That's just what Wikia wanted to call it and I agreed with it because it seems like a decent description.
I think it's easier to explain this from a MHWiki POV. See when I joined the MHWiki in 2011, it had this big roster on the front page for all the characters, but sometime in 2012 the amount of characters became too high (and their releases too un-uniform) to maintain the roster. So what I did was create a choose function-based character template for the main page.
In case you don't know what <choose> is, it's a piece of code that lets the computer pick a random option from the given option list. The options for the character template are character files, which are stored elsewhere (feel free to check Template:Mainpage Box Featured Character to see what I mean). This way, whichever character file a user gets to see is a matter of chance, and purging (not refreshing) the page creates that chance anew.
For the MHWiki, this system replaced the all-character roster. The random file (containing five deep-canon facts) + a link to the Characters page is a sufficient alternative to an ever increasing cast. I was going to do this for the EAHWiki from the start, but Wikia/Mattel sort of insisted there'd be a character roster. We... agreed there'd be both.
At this point it gets a bit muddy because I had to give up control and I still have to wait to get it back. In order to meet Mattel's wishes (they pay for the partnership), Wikia had to create a fancier front page and since I'm not capable of that (or allowed to), Wikia did that. My wishes for the technical part of the FC section were largely met, though I had to do a lot of recoding and clean-up work. What wasn't met was the visual aspect or the exact content. Or the part where it had to be easy for users to create new character files.
I do not possess the skill to do anything about the FC section as is. Wikia makes a lot of use of MediaWiki coding for it, and I'm not very familiar with that aspect of editing. On top of that, there's not really a lot on most characters to create some really good fact points ánd we're waiting for a reply by Mattel if perhaps they'll let us have artwork for wiki use. If we can get that artwork, that'd make for some differences in how to approach a FC update.
So, the FC is randomly chosen by the computer based on the options present. Anyone is free to create extra options for any character that meets the "five facts"-criteria, which should be done by simply filling out a template. However, the system to add new files and maintain current ones is locked/broken and Wikia is passive on fixing it. I have no interest in being the pro-active one as long as Mattel has not yet replied and the exact potential of the FC section remains unclear. I've been informed two weeks ago that the wait is unpredictable and can range from weeks to months. I can wait, but I intend to take action by January if nothing changes before then.
- Tbh, I'm also not overly certain how this partnership is imagined by all parties. Like, I can't go into details, but this is Mattel's first time partnering with a wiki and it shows. They're a little wary to provide the wiki with anything because we're an element out of their control. Also, for legal reasons the partnership technically is with Wikia and not the EAHWiki, meaning that any discussion goes like from Mattel to Wikia to me to Wikia to Mattel. Mattel's interest is good marketing, Wikia's interest is business/customer service, and the wiki's is good coverage. Needless to say that communication doesn't always run smoothly. An example I can share is that the wiki used to call EAH a MH spin-off on the front page, but Mattel didn't want it to be called that. Instead of telling me this, Wikia went ahead adjusting the text on the front page along with their other updates, but they also unintentionally removed the links of that same text. Since the difference was small, I didn't notice and made it easier for myself by cp'ing an older version to restore the links. Wikia interpreted this as me insisting calling EAH a MH spin-off and informed Mattel of this. Coincidentally they told me what they told Mattel and then I was able to clear up the confusion and produce something all parties could be happy with. So, yeah, we're taking extremely wobbly babysteps here.
- As for the amount of influence Mattel has, it depends what is agreed on. Keep in mind that Mattel has absolutely zero knowledge of wiki building and that they can pretty much only express wishes, which Wikia in turn explains are impossible, implements, or implements with own initiative additions. However, Wikia works on basis of general ideas of wiki building and has no familiarity with the particulars of this wiki, so it is then up to me to work with Wikia's ideas and adjustments to make them fit this wiki. If at all possible, of course. Anyway, right now Mattel only has been of influence on the front page and the quiz, but talks about furthering the partnership continue and more may roll out of that. However, in regards to the front page the intention is for the EAHWiki to maintain it and not Wikia. I've been offered personal explanations of MediaWiki to bring the front page back under EAHWiki control, but other things got on the path and as said, right now I rather wait for some answers/confirmations before proceeding because that's more efficient. The current front page is not too out-of-date, so we can wait.
- Once the front page is back under control (and to be clear, "control" here is about ability/insight and not authority), the intent is that anyone can freely make and add character files to the FC section. You would not need permission to add Cupid (if you really want, you can add Cupid already. I can help you with that, and you are free to continue making more after that, but keep in mind I intend to largely revise the FC section within a few months).
- The whole "copyright" thing sounds more intimidating than it is. Basically, all images we use on this wiki are copyrighted, because they belong to Mattel. However, under the Fair Use principle anyone is principally allowed to use copyrighted material as long as no profit is made on them, the copyright acknowledged, and another purpose is served (Mattel uses them for marketing + entertainment, we use 'em for information). So, any screenshot we make is copyrighted to Mattel. (A user makes the screenshot, true, but clearly Mattel has the biggest input in the image's existence.) When Wikia made the character files, they didn't look further than what this very wiki already offered. Those file images are just my screenshots adjusted to fit the required size. So, don't worry about that copyright stuff too much. Just use whatever image on the wiki you can find for a character file. Parrotbeak (talk) 06:50, November 11, 2013 (UTC)
I totally understand, but, about that, I have no idea how to use the template. It's either the reason because Lizzie/ any other character doesn't have a proper card image yet, but Parrotbeak let me add a webisode image if I name it/ make the template. Though the words on Lizzie's profile on the characters/students are entirely different to her original profile!
November 10, 2013 (UTC)Mojojojo13579
Yes, thanks! Well, the thing is, I'm not so great with templates, so is it okay if you give me a tiny walk through?
Mojojojo13579 22:55, November 11, 2013 (UTC)
Thanks Kelli! ^_^
Mojojojo13579 23:03, November 11, 2013 (UTC)
- Smalltime characters can simply be listed, just linkless. It's easier if ever coverage gets deep enough that such characters also earn a page. And if any don't fit because they technically do not appear, you can make a note on them. In fact, it might be useful to make a note listing all small characters and their jobs.
- Also, you mentioned you are starting to get more familiar with templates. Do you mean using them or creating them? Parrotbeak (talk) 23:01, November 11, 2013 (UTC)
- Forgive me lack of clarity. It's a little difficult for me to advice you on the page since I've only ever written one myself (MHWiki - Monster High (book)) and still need to get back to it to improve it. I have not the best hold on a project like this myself.
- What I meant is that you can make a Notes section, with an Other subsection. Under the Other header, you write a text that goes something like this "The Storybook of Legends contains a lot of filler characters. They are: Ooglot - servant of the Queen Family, etc." Something that gives people a heads-up on some of the names that show up in the Characters list. You can also use this note for characters who are only mentioned and thus don't fit the list.
- I noticed you used both "the next" and "future" to indicate a student in the book. It's best to not use different terminology. "Future" will do for both - it's shorter and a single word.
- Okay (tbh, basic template making isn't any more complicated). Just in case you don't know, I usually write guides for the templates I've created. They can be found on the template page. Parrotbeak (talk) 07:07, November 12, 2013 (UTC)
- I'm glad to hear that. I've been steamrolling my way through the MHWiki in the past weeks to get back on long-neglected areas with the intent that the design behind the updates will benefit the EAHWiki too. Books can't be done for a while, but I hope the current minor example is a decent guiding point.
- Long character lists aren't a problem. You are invited to look up the MH TV special lists of the more recent TV specials (haven't updated 13 Wishes yet, though). A growing character database leads to that - the book's list will just be ahead a year or two. It remains useful even if long. Parrotbeak (talk) 11:59, November 13, 2013 (UTC)
Thank you Kellicopter! I've done almost everything. I got the picture and the template too. But I must ask, should I leave the description of Lizzie in the Characters/students page AND insert the picture or just connect it, change the info with the picture in it to match her profile?
Thanks Kellicopter for the help! Maybe I shouldn't change the words on the picture because it would be edited. I could also help with uploading the Blondie image thanks to your techniques. Plus, there was a problem because someone's attempt to edit failed.
I'll try to help the Wiki by doing so now.
Thanks again for the help!
Mojojojo13579 09:39, November 13, 2013 (UTC)User:Mojojojo13579
Dear Kellicopter, I know I left many messages on your Talk, but this one's URGENT.. Ok, so a Blondie template image was put on there. I did the instructions you gave, everything was fine. But once I pressed 'preview' I found the 'edit' button on the Blondie part was gone! But I decided to temporarily take down the image just incase it might affect the system.
Do you know how to fix these problems? Or are they just glitches or please tell me how to fix this ASAP, didn't want to do any harm to the article and I wouldn't want to upset Parrotbeak. All her hard work gone to waste! .-.'
Mojojojo13579 10:11, November 13, 2013 (UTC)
Fixed the problems!
Dear Kellicopter, I fixed the problems. Parrotbeak told me that I accidentally added the template next to the heading, which means that the heading would have a problem.
Mojojojo13579 08:53, November 14, 2013 (UTC)
I don't know if you're the kind of person who itches to be able to check if a write-up of a diary is done correctly, but in case you are, this was my source: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJ1VqBu-t0s . Parrotbeak (talk) 16:52, November 19, 2013 (UTC)
TV special template
Yes, sorry, I had not prepared for a TV special's transcript. I will get to it, but I need to sleep soon, so it'll have to wait to tomorrow. You can already set up the transcript page if you want. Parrotbeak (talk) 21:36, November 26, 2013 (UTC)
- If someone edits a Help page, there's pretty much no doubt to give. It's a type of vandalism I've had several run-ins with on the MHWiki and there's never reason to doubt it is on purpose, if only due to the oddity of the location. Doesn't matter for this case - you've already said we won't take action, so we won't. We can sit this out and see how that user will continue on. Just a heads up that this isn't really a benefit of the doubt situation.
- I'm a little in doubt about the status of "The Tale of Legacy Day" as webisode or TV special. I get the feeling that the TV special is what we saw a month ago: Apple's Tale + Raven's Tale + Legacy Day, and that three separate are webisodes. This suspision is supported by the fact that the French version had credits and was titled "Le Jour de l'Héritage: un récit, deux histoires", while the French upload of yesterday is titled "Le récit du Jour de l'Héritage". But I'm not sure how to proceed from that suspicion. Do you have a suggestion (I could try my luck with Mattel, but I've still not even heard back on what the theme song's title is).
- To keep a check on myself, do you consider me to act out of line in regards to Don'tKnowWhy? You don't have to answer if you're not comfortable about that, but I would be grateful for some feedback. Parrotbeak (talk) 08:07, November 27, 2013 (UTC)
- No need to thank me for that. You earned yourself admin-ship and the authority that comes with that. I'm not going to go "but!" on that.
- The one question then is how I should re-arrange this. I'm planning on doing some big update work this weekend, so I'll get to it then (there's a script link in the TV infobox now, so that's taken care of for the time being).
- I have no clue what happened with the original announcement, but I don't think we'll see those remaining twenty-some minutes (worst case scenario: The TV special as a whole is the remaining twenty-some minutes). Chapter 2 might start at any moment though, so I hope it'll be a smooth transition that makes the "broken promise" irrelevant.
- Okay then. I know I'm not the easiest to get along with, so if you ever feel I need to be called back on something, do so. Parrotbeak (talk) 20:52, November 27, 2013 (UTC)
- Hmm, before anything, I'd like to emphasize I didn't "ban" DKW. At least, clearly that is what I did, but it's only temporary and set to coincide with a time in which I plan to do some heavy updating, as I announced above, and can do without distraction. I find their behavior, which is also 100% contribution free, very much upsetting and demotivating even without the racial context. Like, they literally said "You need to eluciate your actions, seriously." Then I do that, and I get responses that they don't care and that I should "rant" to someone else. Or I get accusations that I don't do my research when I keep bringing up sources and they don't at all.
- As for my remark to DKW about their race, you may have seen my interaction with Tami0817 recently. Being lied to is one of the things I respond worst to. The thing is, it is a well-known and documented fact to POCs who use the internet to discuss race that white people and white-identifying people have a tendency to present themselves as either the discussion-relevant POC kind or as a black person (because it's commonly understood they're on the bottom of the hierarchy in the racial system) on the misguided assumption that that hands them auto-leverage no matter what they say. I've got personal experience with this tactic too. When DKW said they were Afro American, I gave them a link to an Afro American woman who discussed her problem about Apple's design. I gave DKW this link because I assumed it to be more sensitive to their experience/outlook and to provide a bridge between us as to what I stand for (I have a promise to the link's woman to uphold). But DKW never responded to it at all and became only more dismissive of my concerns. It is true that what they said could be said by anyone of any race. But it is also true that, all things considered, there's reason to doubt their earlier claim. My main motivation behind saying what I said was seeing how they'd respond to further my estimation. Unfortch, they completely misinterpreted what I said, as usual, and the response isn't making things clearer.
- As for your guess that my links were shocking, this ties in with the one reason I
havehad to assume DKW is a troll. Maybe you'd already seen it, but if not, please go to DKW's contribution list -> deleted contributions -> 00:01, November 27, 2013 -> Final paragraph. I honestly still don't know what I am supposed to do with those words. If it'd be trolling, that'd be one thing. But having to assume they are serious? It's a borderline pro-child abuse message, which otherwise does betray some political engagement that makes it difficult to believe my links shook their world down. I'd also like to point they are jumping back and forth in regards to my explanations: On one hand, they claim there is no racism in the way EAH has been set up. On the other, they say it's business/Mattel's not Congress, implying there is racism but that it is somehow excused. Combined with the aforementioned observations as well as an overall unpleasant approach to anyone not Apple, especially characters who are highly popular (they called Cerise boring and predictable while also admitting they consciously avoid engaging with the fiction she appears in), DKW's problem exceeds any angle it exists on and seems impossible to get a hold on.
- I thank you for the respectful way you've opened this talk with me. I stand with the belief that not standing up against a system is complying with that system, so there's not much I can do with the argument that "feels different when it is coming from top management". Other than to resign, that is, but I take it that's a solution for another time. However, I am open to improving the way I combine both... duties. You've used the terms "zealous", "contempt", "foaming condemnation", and the like. I think I follow that in a general sense, but perhaps you can point out, say, two examples where you consider me to have reacted poorly (doesn't have to be DKW-related) and how you think I should've handled those cases better to illustrate a line you'd rather see me walk. If you have no specific suggestions, that's okay too, but I always go over any event that escalated multiple times myself and only once in a while I can figure out a better course of action on my own. Parrotbeak (talk) 11:59, November 30, 2013 (UTC)
- Apologies, I forgot the webisode matter. It ought to be explained in the note on the TV special page, but perhaps I didn't explain it well? All the webisode content together, The World of EAH included, is a little below 48 minutes. The TV special as aired in France is a little over 22 minutes. Together, that makes 70 minutes. Now, 70 minutes is no 110 minutes, but a common way to write 70 minutes is 1:10 minutes - one hour and ten minutes. Given the evidence, I assume that "110" is a typo of "1:10", thus explaining the discrepancy between the announcement and what we actually got. Parrotbeak (talk) 14:14, December 1, 2013 (UTC)
- Yeah, I had come to the conclusion they were for real a little back and forth down the line too. But even if I had realized that back when I chose to delete the comment, I still don't think I would've kept it. Even looking back, I don't have any faith what would've come out of a discussion would've been worth keeping, and that would've been after quite an amount of effort. Even looking back, I don't know if I should start about how disgusting it is to believe that ensuring children are kept under total control is more important than discussing how racial representation in fiction influences racial self-worth and empathy potential, or if I should start about how destructively presumptious it is that every parent loves their child and/or wants the best for them (not to mention the way non/other-parents may have a stake in controlling a child, which ties back to race too). There's a personal stake here too: I have nothing to complain about my parents - they're wonderful, but I have autism and it just leaves me devastated how many parents believe that autism makes a person broken, to the point they don't even register that maybe there is something wrong about saying that a child is better off dead that autistic. Chances are that I, with a lot of effort, would've been able to explain why what DKW said is not okay, and that DKW in return would not respond sensitively, as they'd shown to be inclined to earlier.
- In short, I chose myself and the sure-fire benefit of effortless absence over the uncertain benefit of invested-in presence. I understand that this essentially is running away, but I never wanted things to go as they did in the first place. I mean, I stood up for Apple - DKW's fav! But because I didn't let them trashtalk Cerise - in accordance with the rules - the situation escalated. DKW made it very clear through their responses to my 'POCs in Europe'-paragraph that they weren't planning on listening, so I put an end to it. I do not take deleting comments lightly.
- Further, without meaning to discredit your feedback as is, about the two example cases. For the first one, consider this: if I wanted to pick apart DKW on insignificant mistakes, don't you agree that their grammar at large would be a much richer target? So, maybe I had something else in mind when I went in on the country vs continent thing. I'll avoid the details of the subject, but I've talked with people who sincerely thought/think Europe is a country (admittedly, it's a rather small continent). Misconceptions that simplify nationality also serve to erase and stereotype people. I said what I said because I had reason to fear DKW believed in a non-fact, which just so happened to also be relevant to the topic at hand.
- As for the other example, like DKW, DKaK made it personal. I may not be fully Asian, but I heavily identify by it and I have brown hair. (East) Asians can have brown hair. "Stupid", by all means, is the least of all reactions I want to give voice to if I reread that assertion East Asians can only have black hair. But, as with my behavior towards DKW towards the end, I (think I) would have kept to the second paragraph if I had not suspected that worse was to follow. I can not really explain this - it's a matter of experience. At some point, you start recognizing types of people and know how they'll respond. And, more importantly, you start linking topics and instead of responding to the immediate topic, you start responding to the encompassing belief you know is behind the immediate topic. DKaK did not disappoint. You might want to click the history button on their final reply. My reply to that is the DC of 21:10, November 7, 2013, which I removed as to not make DKaK's chance moot after he took it (you might notice there was a minor convo going, which was between me and Bimbola1). You might agree it's more to the point than my initial reply - I had already had my emotional response.
- Without a doubt, I should remove the word "stupid" from my vocabulary. It's confronting to see me use an ableist word like it twice. At least in regards to DKW, had I not said it, maybe the intent behind the country vs continent thing would've been clearer. But I'm not sure if I can improve more than this looking at the examples. There's personal reactions - you suggest me to say “Please don’t say that. That can be considered hurtful because blah.”, but that doesn't sound like you realize that sometimes I am the one being hurt. Not to mention that saying something is racist is not the same as saying something is hurtful. Undoubtedly it is hurtful to be called racist, but whatever provokes that accusation is something much more pervasive than hurtful. And then there's baggage (as mentioned in the fourth paragraph) that I can't always properly convey. For instance, DKW got mad that I accused him of racism when I was the one that brought in the topic of race. And from their side, that makes sense because with no investment in the topic, one may hold the idea racism is what the Klu Klux Clan does. But I have some clue about the systematic structure of racism and I see how EAH plays into that or how fans play into that even if none of the parties realize it, but that doesn't excuse it. DKW called Cerise unoriginal, which if she would be white might be true, but if she is understood as East Asian, she's got the highest anti-arche/stereotypical potential of all characters yet. There's simply not always room, time, and energy to not only argue my case, but also to change the playfield and tools of the discussion so it becomes accessible in the first place.
- I can promise to try being more patient and benefit-of-the-doubt-y, but it's not a clearcut easy matter - especially when I'm expected to play judge when I am "victim" (I think I tend to respond calmer when I don't fit the targeted group(s)?). Of course, you remain welcome to give me feedback whenever you think I need it. Most people new to "social justice" don't quite start out understanding that there might be a history of bad experiences behind certain reactions, so in that sense you're definitely ahead of the game. I appreciate that. Parrotbeak (talk) 19:51, December 5, 2013 (UTC)
Thanks for teaching me how to use the templates! Til the card profiles of the characters come out, is it alright if I add pictures until then? If the character's cards come out I'd be happy to add them in too.
Oh.. Sure! I'm sure I can fix that XD.
Sorry but I think the only good picture for Dexter (his profile picture is too big for his profile), so I posted the Facebook-Daring and Dexter. Hope it's okay til Dex gets his card! I'll do this with the other characters, for other people to recognize their faces :).
Lime and I have teamed up! :D And we've decided to edit/add images to characters' mass articles. But we need an Admin's permission if we're going to add images. We are going to name all our images, and we selected the correct template (the method you taught me). But most importantly, Lime and I agree we should add images to the pets and adults page. Since they don't have any cards coming out and there are no images there XD.
Small mistake, but Parrotbeak fixed it. I think Lime added the rest in, but what about characters/adults? The students one is all done for now.
- ) Thanks very much, Kelli! Hope the cards of more students come out soon! (I might change a few if I find better images of them, though!)